Interpretation of TNLA General Secretary Gen Tah Phone Kyaw interview with the BBC

解读TNLA总书记达潘觉将军接受BBC采访（机译）

作者：赛万塞  来源：掸邦先驱新闻社

TNLA General Secretary Gen. Tah Phone Kyaw.

TNLA秘书长达潘觉将军。

On December 14, the BBC Burmese Section conducted an interview with Ta’ang National Liberation Army (TNLA) General Secretary Gen. Tah Phone Kyaw on the recent political and military situations surrounding his organization, particularly the foreseeable talks with the junta brokered by China.

12月14日，英国广播公司（BBC）缅甸分社采访了达昂民族解放军（TNLA）总书记达潘觉将军，就最近围绕该组织的政治和军事局势，特别是可预见的由中国斡旋的与军政府的会谈进行了采访。

In his interview, a variety of issues were handled. Chief among them are the captured territories, how they are administered, if they will be incorporated into the TNLA envisioned Ta’ang or Palaung State, and if they are up for bargaining with the military junta.

在他的采访中，处理了各种各样的问题。其中最主要的是被占领的领土，如何管理，是否会被纳入TNLA设想的塔昂或帕朗州，以及他们是否准备与军政府讨价还价。

However, the primary concern is the junta’s airstrikes and bombardment of the TNLA-captured territories. He admitted that together with what the junta has been doing and China’s sanctions, plus the junta’s blockage, the civilians have been suffering. Thus, a ceasefire is what he has been looking for.

然而，主要的关切是军政府对tnla占领的领土的空袭和轰炸。他承认，加上军政府的所作所为和中国的制裁，再加上军政府的封锁，平民一直在受苦。因此，停火是他一直在寻求的。

TNLA troops.

德昂民族解放军

Clearly, the TNLA has problems trying to run its administration in captured territories, although he portrayed it as quite successful and adequately represented by the local people. However, the ground reports indicated otherwise, which said only Ta’ang were employed as administrative leaders.

很明显，TNLA在被占领地区的管理上存在问题，尽管他将其描述为相当成功，并且有当地人民的充分代表。然而，地面报告却显示出不同的情况，报告说只有塔昂被聘为行政领导。

As an example of how successfully the TNLA was able to roll out its administrative apparatus, he compared Muse and Namkham. He said while Muse, controlled by the junta, together with the variety of militias, is a crime-infested city, Namkham under the TNLA is a peaceful city where the people can go about their businesses without crimes.

作为TNLA如何成功地推出其管理机构的一个例子，他比较了Muse和Namkham。他说，军政府和各种民兵控制的缪斯是一个犯罪猖獗的城市，而TNLA统治下的南卡姆是一个和平的城市，人们可以在没有犯罪的情况下做自己的事情。

On the question of whether the TNLA-designated Ta’ang State will include all its captured territories, Tah Phone Kyaw wasn’t quite clear. He only said that in all ten big towns and small ones of captured territories, there are Ta’ang populations, although he didn’t mentioned the percentage. But he did mention some townships have Shan majority. However, it is everyone’s knowledge that the Shan are the majority in most of northern Shan State.

关于tnla指定的达昂邦是否包括其占领的所有领土的问题，塔潘觉并不十分清楚。他只说，在被占领土的10个大小城镇中，都有壮族人口，但没有提到比例。但他确实提到了一些掸族占多数的城镇。然而，每个人都知道掸族在掸邦北部的大部分地区占多数。

The TNLA also has the responsibility to administer and protect the captured territories, Tah Phone Kyaw said.

他说，TNLA也有责任管理和保护被占领的领土。

Regarding the realization of Ta’ang State, he at least said that there has to be discussion on its size and which areas should be included with concerned stakeholders at an appropriate time. But his tone is undoubtedly for the inclusion of all captured territories where the junta troops were being pushed out.

对于达江国的实现，他至少表示，在适当的时候，应该与相关利益相关者讨论其规模和哪些领域应该包括在内。但他的语气无疑是支持将所有被占领的地区包括在内，这些地区是军政府军队被赶出去的地方。

Concerning if the TNLA will agree to withdraw from the captured territories just like the Kokang or Myanmar National Democratic Alliance Army (MNDAA) has been pressured to give up Lashio City and North Eastern Military Command, Tah Phone Kyaw was quite against the demand, just the same as the MNDAA, even against the Chinese urging.

对于TNLA是否会像果敢或缅甸民族民主联盟军（MNDAA）一样同意从被占领的领土撤出，taphone Kyaw和MNDAA一样反对这一要求，甚至不顾中国的敦促。

Map of Self proclaimed Ta’ang State. Credit: ICG.

自封的塔昂邦地图。来源:协调小组。

He said the capture of territories was successful due to the TNLA and allies of Bamar revolutionary groups’ hard work and sacrifices. And as such, it has to defend them with political and military alertness.

他说，由于TNLA和缅甸革命组织的盟友的辛勤工作和牺牲，占领领土是成功的。因此，它必须以政治和军事上的警觉性来保护它们。

In this connection, he was asked why the Bamar Revolutionary groups and other allies are being asked to move out of northern Shan State; he skirted the question by saying that there was a lot of pressure from China on all ethnic armed organizations (EAOs) in northern Shan State. But wouldn’t give in that they were asked to leave by the TNLA.

在这方面，有人问他为什么要求缅族革命团体和其他盟友撤出掸邦北部；他回避了这个问题，说中国对掸邦北部的所有民族武装组织（eao）都施加了很大压力。但他们不会屈服于TNLA要求他们离开的事实。

In contrast, the MNDAA openly gave in to the Chinese pressure to cut its relationship with the National Unity Government (NUG) and its affiliation that China considered to be pro-West.

相比之下，MNDAA公开屈服于中国的压力，与中国认为亲西方的民族团结政府（NUG）及其附属关系断绝关系。

In sum, Tah Phone Kyaw’s motive is to have a ceasefire, where the junta won’t use airstrikes and artillery bombardment of its captured towns, so that the TNLA can establish its administrative machinery and solidify its grip in its controlled territories.

总之，Tah Phone Kyaw的动机是停火，军政府不会对其占领的城镇进行空袭和炮击，这样TNLA就可以建立自己的行政机构，巩固对其控制地区的控制。

The second point is to let the power that be in Naypyitaw or any government that comes into being forced to accept its demand of the expanded Palaung Self-Administered Zone as Ta’ang or Palaung State.

第二点是让内比都的权力或任何被迫接受其要求的政府将扩大的帕朗自治区作为塔昂或帕朗邦。

Moreover, the six-fold or more expansion of the Ta’ang territories is to be forcefully taken over and legitimize, if possible, at the expense of the Shan majority and other ethnic groups, even though the Ta’ang are minorities in the land TNLA claimed to be theirs.

此外，如果可能的话，将以牺牲占多数的掸族和其他少数民族的利益为代价，强行接管并使塔昂人的领土扩大六倍以上，尽管塔昂人在TNLA声称属于他们的土地上是少数民族。

With such a political territorial expansionism attitude, which harbors on narrow and aggressive ethnonationalism, it is hard to imagine if Shan State will ever be at peace, even if the junta is defeated.

在这种政治上的领土扩张主义态度下，即使军政府被击败，也很难想象掸邦是否会有和平。这种态度带有狭隘和侵略性的民族主义。

作者：赛万塞         来源：掸邦先驱新闻社